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	<title>Comments on: Why not contribute?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/</link>
	<description>A troll&#039;s eye view</description>
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		<title>By: tadeusz</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>tadeusz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 07:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-514</guid>
		<description>In my opinion the main bottleneck is switching from running SVN trunk to writing a first patch or two.

Weak points that put me off in the past:
 - api.kde.org is slow, difficult to search, lacks examples. Way beyond Qt&#039;s docs at doc.trolltech.com.
 - few junior jobs hidden in the depths of bugs.kde.org
 - bugzilla is difficult and cumbersome to use (again, compare with Qt, which uses JIRA)

Strong points that kept me encouraged:
 - IRC channels on the freenode always friendly and insightful.
 - planetkde.org blogs that showed new and exciting developments.
 - non-programming help from translators, SVG artists etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion the main bottleneck is switching from running SVN trunk to writing a first patch or two.</p>
<p>Weak points that put me off in the past:<br />
 &#8211; api.kde.org is slow, difficult to search, lacks examples. Way beyond Qt&#8217;s docs at doc.trolltech.com.<br />
 &#8211; few junior jobs hidden in the depths of bugs.kde.org<br />
 &#8211; bugzilla is difficult and cumbersome to use (again, compare with Qt, which uses JIRA)</p>
<p>Strong points that kept me encouraged:<br />
 &#8211; IRC channels on the freenode always friendly and insightful.<br />
 &#8211; planetkde.org blogs that showed new and exciting developments.<br />
 &#8211; non-programming help from translators, SVG artists etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Noname, Nologo</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>Noname, Nologo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-512</guid>
		<description>Ok, it&#039;s a bit much, but...
te more kde versions, the more w-like...
Please, no more 500x500 icons (icon=hieroglyphic writing), no more 200 Gb icon packages, no more personal data in hidden (very good hidden) files/directories, and configurability, CONFIGURABILITY !!! and docs, docs, DOCS !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, it&#8217;s a bit much, but&#8230;<br />
te more kde versions, the more w-like&#8230;<br />
Please, no more 500&#215;500 icons (icon=hieroglyphic writing), no more 200 Gb icon packages, no more personal data in hidden (very good hidden) files/directories, and configurability, CONFIGURABILITY !!! and docs, docs, DOCS !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Spudley</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>Spudley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-511</guid>
		<description>The biggest barrier to entry for me has always been the sheer depth of the learning curve.

In my mind I say &quot;I want to help with KDE&quot;, but then where to start?

I would say that KDE (and indeed most open source projects) need to be much more accessible to the absolute beginner.

When I say absolute beginner, I don&#039;t mean someone just learning how to write code -- I am already an experienced coder -- what I mean is someone who doesn&#039;t know the APIs or the concepts used by the project, and doesn&#039;t have the time to trawl through the documentation trying to find out.

In other words, a large and easy to follow section for examples. In multiple languages.

Case in point: There was a recent competition on the KDE site to write a Plasma applet. I thought to myself &quot;I know Javascript; this could be a good chance for me to learn a bit about Plasma&quot;. But when I tried browsing the links to the examples and documentation, I just got page load errors, so I gave up. I tried later after the competition was over, and the pages did load, but I found the examples insufficient, and I still couldn&#039;t find the full API documentation.

It may be that I didn&#039;t look in the right place or spend long enough looking for it, but to be honest, it was enough of a stumbling block for me that I just didn&#039;t even get started. I may go back and have another look at some point, but it really needs to be easier to find and more of it.

Getting started in more complex software seems to be even harder. I have tried to find useful documentation for some of the smaller apps, but it all seems very haphazard. Maybe the core KDE projects are better organized? I don&#039;t know; and at this rate I&#039;ll never know, because I&#039;m not going to dive into those without wetting my nose on the easier stuff.

Thanks for listening.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest barrier to entry for me has always been the sheer depth of the learning curve.</p>
<p>In my mind I say &#8220;I want to help with KDE&#8221;, but then where to start?</p>
<p>I would say that KDE (and indeed most open source projects) need to be much more accessible to the absolute beginner.</p>
<p>When I say absolute beginner, I don&#8217;t mean someone just learning how to write code &#8212; I am already an experienced coder &#8212; what I mean is someone who doesn&#8217;t know the APIs or the concepts used by the project, and doesn&#8217;t have the time to trawl through the documentation trying to find out.</p>
<p>In other words, a large and easy to follow section for examples. In multiple languages.</p>
<p>Case in point: There was a recent competition on the KDE site to write a Plasma applet. I thought to myself &#8220;I know Javascript; this could be a good chance for me to learn a bit about Plasma&#8221;. But when I tried browsing the links to the examples and documentation, I just got page load errors, so I gave up. I tried later after the competition was over, and the pages did load, but I found the examples insufficient, and I still couldn&#8217;t find the full API documentation.</p>
<p>It may be that I didn&#8217;t look in the right place or spend long enough looking for it, but to be honest, it was enough of a stumbling block for me that I just didn&#8217;t even get started. I may go back and have another look at some point, but it really needs to be easier to find and more of it.</p>
<p>Getting started in more complex software seems to be even harder. I have tried to find useful documentation for some of the smaller apps, but it all seems very haphazard. Maybe the core KDE projects are better organized? I don&#8217;t know; and at this rate I&#8217;ll never know, because I&#8217;m not going to dive into those without wetting my nose on the easier stuff.</p>
<p>Thanks for listening.  <img src='http://www.asinen.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2010 18:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-508</guid>
		<description>Lots of interesting points - thanks.

Re knowing where to start, does http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Junior_Jobs help at all? I suppose (but I&#039;m no coder so I don&#039;t know) it is tougher to understand and contribute to a codebase written by other people than to start your own. If our documentation is lacking then clearly that makes it harder. Documentation is, unfortunately, probably not really a fun thing so with a largely volunteer community perhaps it tends to suffer

@ regisg - great, I hope that works out. Did you already get on the mailinglist? (http://www.kdevelop.org/index.html?filename=mailinglist.html I think)

@ Adam - thanks, that is interesting (seems a pretty happy community - lots of people seem to not contribute because they think Python is doing fine already)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of interesting points &#8211; thanks.</p>
<p>Re knowing where to start, does <a href="http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Junior_Jobs" rel="nofollow">http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Junior_Jobs</a> help at all? I suppose (but I&#8217;m no coder so I don&#8217;t know) it is tougher to understand and contribute to a codebase written by other people than to start your own. If our documentation is lacking then clearly that makes it harder. Documentation is, unfortunately, probably not really a fun thing so with a largely volunteer community perhaps it tends to suffer</p>
<p>@ regisg &#8211; great, I hope that works out. Did you already get on the mailinglist? (<a href="http://www.kdevelop.org/index.html?filename=mailinglist.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kdevelop.org/index.html?filename=mailinglist.html</a> I think)</p>
<p>@ Adam &#8211; thanks, that is interesting (seems a pretty happy community &#8211; lots of people seem to not contribute because they think Python is doing fine already)</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 05:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-507</guid>
		<description>I agree with simion314. I&#039;ve looked at a lot of apps in kde4. some are not documented at all are barely any at all, while there are a few that are. Some apps have like 4 classes in a single header and source, which also makes it hard to read.

I would love to see KDE&#039;s documents be more documented than it really is. Is there a way we can request a day or week to just documenting code? I know it would be really boring or just start urging applications and libraries to get documented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with simion314. I&#8217;ve looked at a lot of apps in kde4. some are not documented at all are barely any at all, while there are a few that are. Some apps have like 4 classes in a single header and source, which also makes it hard to read.</p>
<p>I would love to see KDE&#8217;s documents be more documented than it really is. Is there a way we can request a day or week to just documenting code? I know it would be really boring or just start urging applications and libraries to get documented.</p>
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		<title>By: simion314</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>simion314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-506</guid>
		<description>I also make opensource Qt programs. The diference betwen kde and Qt is huge . Kde documentation is bad, kdevelop is not stable yet.  The applications are huige and complex, no documentation. I tried contributing to kopete and fix some bugs, and it was imposible , there are a lot of  classes, a signal starts from a class then it caught in other and send again to other class and over and over again untill you do not remember where you started. 
I think this application need some flowcharts to describe how it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also make opensource Qt programs. The diference betwen kde and Qt is huge . Kde documentation is bad, kdevelop is not stable yet.  The applications are huige and complex, no documentation. I tried contributing to kopete and fix some bugs, and it was imposible , there are a lot of  classes, a signal starts from a class then it caught in other and send again to other class and over and over again untill you do not remember where you started.<br />
I think this application need some flowcharts to describe how it works.</p>
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		<title>By: Chakie</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>Chakie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-505</guid>
		<description>For me it&#039;s mostly a case of where to start? I consider myself a pretty good Qt developer and am very familiar with various ways of developing pure Qt apps, both desktop and embedded. However, I have a hard time seeing myself dive into the immense code base that is the KDE libs. Once you manage to learn some API it&#039;s already obsolete and about to be replaced by the Next Big Thing. Apps also feel so big that it&#039;s a huge task to &quot;start fixing something&quot; and the bugs that I see that actually annoy me seem to be deep down in the maze like foundations. 

So I &quot;contribute&quot; to the Open Source world by working on Qt applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me it&#8217;s mostly a case of where to start? I consider myself a pretty good Qt developer and am very familiar with various ways of developing pure Qt apps, both desktop and embedded. However, I have a hard time seeing myself dive into the immense code base that is the KDE libs. Once you manage to learn some API it&#8217;s already obsolete and about to be replaced by the Next Big Thing. Apps also feel so big that it&#8217;s a huge task to &#8220;start fixing something&#8221; and the bugs that I see that actually annoy me seem to be deep down in the maze like foundations. </p>
<p>So I &#8220;contribute&#8221; to the Open Source world by working on Qt applications.</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-504</guid>
		<description>What stops me is I don&#039;t know where I want to work. And also I&#039;m not confident in my skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What stops me is I don&#8217;t know where I want to work. And also I&#8217;m not confident in my skills.</p>
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		<title>By: blam</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>blam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-503</guid>
		<description>What stops me from contributing is a) the GNOMEish attitude that has entered KDE with Version 4 (just look at Okular and its non-hideable sidepanel) and b) that I&#039;m currently busy with my study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What stops me from contributing is a) the GNOMEish attitude that has entered KDE with Version 4 (just look at Okular and its non-hideable sidepanel) and b) that I&#8217;m currently busy with my study.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.asinen.org/2010/04/why-not-contribute/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asinen.org/?p=740#comment-502</guid>
		<description>Jesse Noller just asked this question about Python rather than KDE. He hasn&#039;t written a follow-up yet, but you might want to follow the discussion:

http://jessenoller.com/2010/04/22/why-arent-you-contributing-to-python/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse Noller just asked this question about Python rather than KDE. He hasn&#8217;t written a follow-up yet, but you might want to follow the discussion:</p>
<p><a href="http://jessenoller.com/2010/04/22/why-arent-you-contributing-to-python/" rel="nofollow">http://jessenoller.com/2010/04/22/why-arent-you-contributing-to-python/</a></p>
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